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Interviewed Speaks Out
Mike Hudack
Editor-in-Chief
Below is the exact text of an interview between editor Mike Hudack and Time` who is a member of Level Seven. Time` has been visited by FBI agents who conducted a fourty-five minute interview about recent website defacements.
Session Start: Thu Jun 10 21:36:55 1999
[21:36] Session Ident: Time` (time@admin.Lamp-Post.net)
[21:36] <Time`> Yes
[21:37] <OwlClone> AS OF RIGHT NOW, EVERYTHING IS ON THE RECORD AND WILL BE PUBLISHED UNEDITED, IS THAT OKAY?
[21:37] <Time`> Wait one second
[21:38] <Time`> Ok
[21:38] <Time`> Yeah everything is Ok
[21:38] <Time`> You may begin
[21:38] <OwlClone> You were visited by the FBI a little while ago, right?
[21:39] <Time`> Yes
[21:39] <OwlClone> Did they give a reason for visiting you?
[21:40] <Time`> They simply asked me to "Come outside for a few minutes to discuss some events that had occured on the internet"
[21:41] <OwlClone> Did they have a search warrant?
[21:41] <Time`> What worried me most was the tone in there voice, but there intentions were clear, so I felt I should expect it
[21:41] <Time`> No they did not.
[21:41] <OwlClone> What did their intentions seem to be?
[21:42] <Time`> To question me on activities that Level Seven had been involved in.
[21:42] <OwlClone> And you're a member of Level Seven, right?
[21:42] <Time`> Yes i'm the Vice President
[21:42] <OwlClone> Are you a member of any other groups?
[21:43] <Time`> No I'am not
[21:43] <OwlClone> What activities were they most interested in?
[21:43] <Time`> The defacement of websites
[21:43] <OwlClone> Any particular websites that were defaced, or all which carried the Level Seven "mark?"
[21:44] <Time`> They seemed interested in the ones we placed the Free gH tag on
[21:44] <OwlClone> Did you at any time refuse to answer their questions?
[21:45] <Time`> Yes once
[21:45] <OwlClone> Did they press you on it or just move on?
[21:45] <Time`> They moved on
[21:46] <Time`> But they asked me again towards the end of the session
[21:46] <OwlClone> What was the question you refused to answer?
[21:46] <Time`> They asked me if I would inform them of were they could find any other members of L7
[21:47] <Time`> Hmm I worded the wrong...
[21:47] <Time`> Well you get the picture
[21:47] <OwlClone> Yeah, I'm sure the picture is gotten
[21:47] <OwlClone> Some others who were visited said the FBI could recount all their owned servers to them -- even those which weren't defaced. Was this the case for you?
[21:48] <Time`> No it was not.
[21:48] <OwlClone> Did they at any time ask to come inside and look around?
[21:48] <Time`> No they did not
[21:49] <OwlClone> About how long did the interview last?
[21:49] <Time`> Around 45 minutes
[21:49] <OwlClone> All this time outside?
[21:49] <Time`> (It definetly seemed longer)
[21:49] <Time`> Yes
[21:49] <OwlClone> Did they ask you about servers you own but haven't defaced?
[21:50] <Time`> I made it clear I did not want them in my home
[21:50] <Time`> No
[21:50] <OwlClone> When you deface a server -- what do you think you're accomplishing?
[21:51] <Time`> After defacing a server, I feel a bit guilty, but then I realize I can only be pushing whoever I'm defacing, into installing patches, or updating there software.
[21:52] <OwlClone> Well, instead of defacing the server, why don't you just e-mail them with information about holes in the system?
[21:52] <Time`> I'd rather deface it
[21:52] <OwlClone> Why?
[21:53] <Time`> Its fun!
[21:53] <Time`> Of course I'm not deleting files necessary for the system to run correctly
[21:53] <OwlClone> So rooting a server without defacing it isn't?
[21:54] <Time`> Personally I enjoy leaving the mark of L7
[21:55] <Time`> ;)
[21:55] <OwlClone> How do you feel towards groups other than L7?
[21:58] <Time`> I think they are very good at what they do, and I also think no matter how malicious they may be they can learn about team-work, without caring about race, sex, religion etc... in these groups...But I also think we should all spend a little time away from our computers as well
[21:58] <OwlClone> Do you spend a little time away from computers?
[22:00] <Time`> Yes, I try to balance, but I have always loved to be on my computer as much as possible because its such an interesting enviornment....things always seem to be changing, and I really enjoy that =)
[22:01] <OwlClone> What operating systems do you use on your computer?
[22:02] <Time`> I use Windows 95, and Redhat Linux 5.02
[22:02] <Time`> err 5.2
[22:02] <OwlClone> Do you have any encryption programs ready to encrypt any compromising data on your computer?
[22:04] <Time`> No I do not.....(I know what your thinking...I would think the same thing also If I was speaking to someone who was just raided by FBI agents)
[22:04] <OwlClone> Are you worried about the FBI coming back with search warrants?
[22:05] <Time`> Yes, unfortunatley thats a worry I carry constantly with myself, but the only thing I can say is, you play with fire, and you will get burned.
[22:05] <OwlClone> Have you played with fire?
[22:06] <Time`> Of course I don't plan on being burned in the near future...
[22:06] <Time`> Have I played with fire?
[22:06] <OwlClone> Yes, have you played with fire?
[22:06] -> *so1o* missed that last thing
[22:07] <Time`> Heh....I think i'm just taking this question the wrong way... Yes, I have played with fire..
[22:07] <Time`> Your speaking as in fire: fbi..correct?
[22:07] <OwlClone> As in cracking servers
[22:08] <Time`> Yes
[22:08] <OwlClone> So you aren't going to encrypt any incriminating data?
[22:08] <Time`> No
[22:08] <Time`> I'm going too
[22:09] <OwlClone> OK... Any particular program you're going to use?
[22:10] <Time`> DataSafe
[22:10] <OwlClone> Do you think it'll keep everything safe?
[22:11] <Time`> It better or I want my money back
[22:11] <OwlClone> I don't blame yah...
[22:12] <OwlClone> Are you aware that defacing a website is a Class C felony which can carry up to a year in prison per count?
[22:12] <Time`> Yes I'am
[22:12] <OwlClone> Are you worried that you may end up in prison for website defacement?
[22:13] <Time`> Of course
[22:13] <OwlClone> Were you aware of the punishment when you committed the crime?
[22:14] <Time`> Yes I was
[22:14] <Time`> ...
[22:14] <OwlClone> So you did it anyway?
[22:15] <Time`> Yes I did
[22:15] <OwlClone> I guess we all already know why
[22:15] <OwlClone> Are there any questions the FBI agents asked you which you'd like to make public?
[22:15] <Time`> Can you guess what I'm thinking right now with the nature of these questions?
[22:16] <Time`> I'll tell you it goes along the lines of "Please don't let him be with the FBI"
[22:16] <OwlClone> I'm just asking the questions my readers want to hear... No, I'm not with the FBI :-)
[22:16] <Time`> Ok I take your word for it ;)
[22:16] <OwlClone> =)
[22:17] <OwlClone> Is there anything else you'd like people to know?
[22:18] <Time`> Well, I would just like to say that everything vent speaks of is true.
[22:18] <OwlClone> Do you think the FBI raids are the beginning of a real get-tough policy against crackers?
[22:18] <Time`> Yes I do
[22:19] <Time`> I look at the governent like a cornered animal
[22:19] <OwlClone> Do you consider yourself a hacker or a cracker?
[22:19] <Time`> It will strike if threatend by something It cannot understand
[22:19] <Time`> I do not consider myself a hacker, nor do I consider myself a legitimate cracker
[22:20] <OwlClone> What do you consider yourself then?
[22:21] <Time`> Someone with a great enjoyment of computers, and learning more about the things you can do and find out with them
[22:21] <OwlClone> Have you discovered much non-public knowledge in your adventures?
[22:21] <Time`> I have always considered the "Hacker" as the enthusiastic programmer
[22:21] <Time`> That I'am not
[22:22] <Time`> My adventures....I like the way you put that ;)
[22:22] <OwlClone> :-)
[22:22] <Time`> No, I have not discovered anything "interesting" to this point
[22:23] <Time`> But it is that fact that makes me hunger for it more
[22:23] <OwlClone> What do you think would be the solution for the mainstream to website defacement?
[22:24] <Time`> I think there should be a crackdown on the c script pages
[22:25] <OwlClone> The exploit sites?
[22:25] <Time`> Yes
[22:25] <Time`> rootshell
[22:25] <OwlClone> What about those who write their own exploits?
[22:25] <Time`> thats just for example
[22:26] <Time`> There is simply no way to stop them, other than to eliminate all faults in source code.....and as you and I both know, that will sure as hell never happen
[22:27] <OwlClone> Yeah, it won't happen
[22:27] <OwlClone> Well... Anything else?
[22:27] <Time`> No, thats about it!
[22:28] <OwlClone> Alright
[22:28] <OwlClone> Thank you very much... This interview will appear on aviary-mag.com in the next few hours
[22:28] <Time`> Great! I enjoyed it!
[22:28] <OwlClone> Me too :-)
[22:29] <OwlClone> If there's anything else you'd like to discuss, just e-mail editor@aviary-mag.com
[22:30] <Time`> Excellent, I'll be sure too!
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